Brown Girl Empowered

How to Thrive in Higher Education as a Woman of Color Feat Shelika

• Manpreet Dhaliwal • Season 1 • Episode 19

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Ever wonder how one can juggle the pressures of academia, a full-time job, and personal health challenges all at once? Meet Shelika, a remarkable PhD candidate in clinical health psychology, who shares her personal journey and the strategies she employs to navigate the demanding terrain of higher education. Through her story, we uncover the power of taking life one step at a time, the crucial role of productivity tools, and the unwavering support from a supervisor and loved ones that makes all the difference.

We also explore the unique landscape faced by women of color in academia, with a spotlight on the experiences of South Asian women. Shelika also offers a treasure trove of strategies to counteract self-doubt, from reaffirming personal values to fostering community connections. Through her insights, we gain practical advice on building confidence and cultivating self-care practices, all reinforced by the support of role models and peers tackling similar challenges.

The conversation takes a reflective turn as we examine the shifting perceptions of mental health within the South Asian community. Shelika shares her groundbreaking work on a pre-assessment tool aimed at supporting mental health among newcomers, emphasizing the critical need for empathy and non-judgmental support. With mental health now being addressed more openly, we discuss the impact of creating safe spaces for dialogue and the transformative power of empathy. We conclude with a resounding message empowering women to pursue their educational and personal goals, reinforcing the belief in their limitless potential.

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Instagram: @manpreetdhaliwal.88

Emails, questions:
Dhaliwalcounselling@gmail.com

Services: www.dhaliwalcounselling.com

Psychology Today Profile:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/therapists/manpreet-dhaliwal-surrey-bc/332001

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for coming on this podcast with me. Manpreet and I've seen such great information about you in terms of your education journey and you've been on this journey to complete your PhD in clinical health psychology. So, first of all, how has this journey been for you?

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, that's actually a pretty good question. Well, you know, for the most part it's been good, but, I'm not going to lie, it's been like really stressful too. You know, I feel like higher education is not for the faint of heart. Yeah, it's, it's a lot of work. I'm a counselor by trade as well, so you know, I'm always dealing with a lot of different things with clients, and then there's also things about my health as well. So, yeah, it's, it's a lot.

Speaker 2:

I've been a part time program takes about like five to six years to finish while I'm working full time. So, yeah, it's, it's a honestly, I sometimes I don't know how to explain it, I just take it day by day and I try to be, you know, as productive as I can be. That's why I made my PhD page, because I felt kind of alone. Yeah, I feel like I don't really see a lot of like before I didn't see a lot of South Asian women and like higher education. But then when I kind of made this Instagram and I want to connect with people, I was like, wow, there is just way more people in higher education than I thought.

Speaker 1:

So so you highlighted two different things, the first one being taking it day by day is important, so you don't feel overwhelmed, and the second thing is trying to connect with other individuals who might be like and a similar career journey, whereas before you might feel completely alone, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So what about like the challenges you faced in your journey proposal to see if your proposal is good enough for your dissertation? That was very nerve wracking and you know I have anxiety disorder, so like it just adds on to everything else as well and I've had like a long history of that since I was a teenager till now being in my early 30s. But you know it's been difficult for the most part. Sorry, can you go back to your question?

Speaker 1:

Just the challenges you experienced, and you touched upon experiencing anxiety even prior to entering this program and being in this program. Now, a lot of individuals face anxiety when they're going through schooling and whatnot, and they can have so many questions regarding like how does one, you know, tackle this anxiety that they're experiencing while they're doing something big in terms of their education? So what are some tips that you have for individuals who may be struggling with anxiety, whether they're in, you know, the educational field and trying to juggle everything while you know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I feel like the challenge of having anxiety than having a big course load and working the same time it's. It's big because I'm doing part-time studies while working full-time.

Speaker 2:

And I think the big tip is and I I kind of mentioned in my Instagram page a lot is you really have to set yourself up for success. You need to have good tools for productivity. You need to have some type of calendar agenda, whatever it might be. I use google calendar um a lot, because otherwise I won't remember anything. Um and also um.

Speaker 2:

I think it really helps to have a really good supervisor as well, who you know you meet every week or bi-weekly, however it might look like, who keeps you accountable but also tells you where you need to improve, right, right. And then I think the other tip, as well as to you know, like I mentioned my Instagram page, but connecting to people in the same program as you. Like, I've connected with a couple people who are doing clinical psychology and it's nice to kind of see where they're at, where I'm at, we just kind of talk about you know different things, even the different posts I post, or I see other people's posts I'd like comment on it, or you know. And I think another tip is having a good support system, because when you're going into a higher education, you know it's important to have, like those positive family, friends and you know around you, because it's not an easy journey, right?

Speaker 1:

So understanding people who get that most of your time is going to be dedicated towards you know your PhD program Because you are juggling so many different things in terms of your education, experiencing anxiety as well as working as well. So have people been understanding of these different responsibilities that you have?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I would say, my family and friends have been really really great. To be honest, before I applied for my PhD, I did a lot of research and I really really thought about it for a little bit. I thought about it for maybe a good solid year or two. If this is something I wanted to pursue and I think one of the biggest things like I have really good, supportive family and friends. But I also have people who say, why do you say it's so difficult? You're the one that chose this program and I'm like I know, but you know it.

Speaker 2:

To be honest, a PhD challenges you the way that you know. Like there's always so many things that challenge you in life and this is one of the things that challenge you, challenge you and I think when it comes to, like, go doing anything in higher education, whatever topic that might be, it's going to challenge you. Like you're going to cry, you're going to have good days, bad days, like I knew that was going to happen. I tried to prepare myself as much as possible mentally for those kinds of things. But yeah, I would say, like all the people around me that are close with me, that know me for years, they're very supportive. They always ask me how I'm doing and if I'm like mentally doing well or I'm taking care of myself and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, there is, like you know, odd people like who are like I just don't get it yeah, they just don't get it, and that's okay.

Speaker 2:

Like I know, this is my journey and I kind of bring it back to myself of this is my journey, I'm going through it and I definitely know how it's like to go through it. And also people who've done their PhD. They've also talked about how it's been really difficult. Right, because there's before, after, after, no before, during and after. It's always such a struggle because you're always going to have something right.

Speaker 2:

And then I think lots of people sometimes get confused, like, if I'm going to become a medical doctor but I'm not going to med school, I go to a university where I do a doctorate in philosophy, which is different than going to medical school, and I also get told sometimes if I'm a real doctor, like you know, it hasn't happened that much, but you know it's happened from some people where it's like, well, if you don't go to medical school, you're not a real doctor.

Speaker 2:

And I was like, well, you know people who are research doctors and I was like, well, you know people who are, oh, you're sitting at a desk and giving medication, but no, right, so it can be tough. And I also know, like a lot of South Asian women tend not to be professors or tend not to go to higher education as well. Mm, hmm, and it can be daunting. Like even women in STEM, like women that are doing more engineering programs, medical programs, like I see more and more women pursuing those career paths, which is really great to see. So women in STEM has been. I've been just seeing it so much on Instagram. It makes me really happy to see that because it is like biomedical engineering.

Speaker 2:

I was like, wow, this is so cool right Something that I could not do but so proud that other women are doing it right.

Speaker 1:

So you talk about there not being much representation right, for South Asian women in this field. So how do you go about navigating that? Because that can bring about some form of imposter syndrome, right, because you haven't seen individuals who look like you in the field in the past, you feel like you might feel like you're not supposed to be there. You know those feelings of feeling like an imposter. How do you navigate that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's. It's tough because, you know, in a lot of spaces I'm like the only woman in color, and it's happened a lot. I'm also from like a province where in a lot of the workplaces I was like I'm from Alberta and you know, like most of the places I was the only woman in color, like for for a while. Obviously, I think that's changed a little bit. But I think the biggest thing is, like I know that my, my story, my experience, my thoughts, the way I'm raised is, is different. I have different experiences, right, I'm raised in an immigrant family. My parents came in the 80s from India, so I definitely bring a different perspective, but sometimes that perspective is not always welcomed at the table, depending on what you're talking about, right as well, especially when you're pursuing higher education, because my dissertation is on immigrant and refugee mental health and them accessing services, right. So sometimes I feel, even with that population, it can get misrepresented a lot with a lot of different talks of. You know what's going on in Canada with its immigration, right. So, yeah, I definitely get it.

Speaker 2:

I still have imposter syndrome. I feel like sometimes I have to work harder than I should be, and I think also because I come from an immigrant family, I always feel like I have to work, like I'm just constant working, like my dad worked, my mom worked, now I just work, work, work. And you know I don't stop. And it's good to be ambition and have a hustle, but I think I'm kind of at this point where it's like, well, I need to take care of my mental health too. I can't just work, work, work. And that's what I saw my parents do, like trying to provide food in the table, but then that kind of went to me like I just need to work and work and work. And where does it?

Speaker 1:

end. Rest is so important as well, right, so for our mental health and whatnot? Mental health and whatnot? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and the field that you're in, it's historically been dominated by white Caucasian men as well. So, yeah, that, how? What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, like I mean I think it's definitely since my master's degree, like I definitely see, like because I did a master's in counseling psychology, I definitely see a lot of women in the master's in counseling program. But then when you kind of go into higher education, like the PhD, I saw a bit of a shift and I saw that there were definitely more males in my class and I definitely saw more people of color, which was really great to see. But I definitely just saw a dip in a lot of women not doing their PhDs. And you know it totally makes sense because sometimes you have kids, you're working, there's just so many demands, right, um, so yeah, it can, it can. It really kind of depends on the spaces you work in. I've worked in hospitals, I've worked in schools and you definitely see some most professors, you know be not really being people of color in general. Right, and I think I was.

Speaker 2:

I was looking at this post from someone on Instagram, I don't remember, but it was talking about how people who are South Asian and Asian and like different parts of the world, like different people of color, especially women, it's like really low for them to hold a PhD and be a professor. You don't see that a lot. And then, obviously, women in STEM it's even lower. Really interesting to see. I feel like it's definitely changing. I see more women, south Asian women, doing various different things that definitely fascinate me definitely fascinate me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's so great to hear about South Asian women and women of color doing new things, doing different things and, you know, breaking the way for other South Asian women. So I'm just wondering what would be your advice to a woman of color who's thinking about doing her PhD and going the route that you have gone through?

Speaker 2:

I would say to other South Asian women definitely look at, kind of what your goals are for the next couple years and if you're really passionate about research because it is very time consuming and it takes out a lot of time in your day and in your life and you're going to be missing a lot of things it definitely in your life.

Speaker 2:

But, um, I think if you want to do a phd, you're passionate about it and you feel that it could fit in your lifestyle for the next couple years, then I think it's, it's definitely worth doing. But I definitely think doing some research, thinking about what program is good for you, is good as well, because a lot of PhD programs they only let you do the program full time. That means you have to give up your job, right, and sometimes that's not feasible. Like what if you have kids and you're married and you're doing? You just have a lot going on. So just I would say, if that's something you're wanting to do pursuing research and a PhD just look. It's important to assess all aspects of your life because it definitely does change your life and challenges you in many different ways.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So it's important to look at where you are in your life, what you want for the next few years and how your life will be impacted, because you're saying that it takes a huge chunk of your time and a lot of brown women I know also suffer with imposter syndrome. What would be your advice to them? Advice to a person of color color, a woman of color and who's suffering from this imposter syndrome feeling that you know she's on, you know in terms of her career, doing really well, but feeling that you know she doesn't deserve to be there or she's an imposter. What would be your advice?

Speaker 2:

I think the the biggest thing is looking at yourself as a person. I always like I think the biggest thing about imposter syndrome is we feel like we're lying. We feel like you know what we're putting out there, like I'm working so hard, I look so successful, but I don't feel like that. I feel insignificant. I feel like people are not going to believe me or because I am a colored person like I'm a woman of color people are not going to deem me as successful as this person.

Speaker 2:

I think the biggest thing is I always like to go back to my values and my beliefs and really look at that. You know, I did work hard, I did have to go through a lot of obstacles to get to where I am, and I also know that I'm paving a way for other women, especially South Asian women, to pursue something that maybe they've never pursued. If I have my Instagram account and I'm posting things, I'm talking about that I'm a South Asian woman pursuing higher education. If that helps someone to reach out and talk about imposter syndrome or they have questions about pursuing a PhD and I can help them with that, then it really helps, right, because they can see a role model and a representation in their community right.

Speaker 2:

So I think that's one thing and also, like I try to as well, want to make sure that I can, you know, have more self-care strategies around, things like that, like I know what I can handle and what I can't, and I always like to list that, like this is what I can't handle today, but maybe I can handle that tomorrow, right, and sometimes imposter syndrome comes over the fact that I'm just so overworked and exhausted that I can't even meet everything. Like I have a list of things but then I only did one thing OK, well, failure. I only did one thing Right. But that one thing is a is a good thing. You finished it Right, it Right. So, and I think a lot of women in their career, when they're kind of like wanting to do more and be more ambitious, but because of societal or systemic issues, they're always stuck in a box. It's hard to break out of that and that's sometimes where imposter syndrome can come from too.

Speaker 2:

So, I think it's important that we know that things take time to really break through, like being uncomfortable is normal, but then also understanding that we need to take care of ourselves as much as we can, but also reaching out for help, like to other women who we can talk to. Like I try to reach out to South Asian women like who are successful in different parts in different careers, just to like hear their story and like, oh, this is cool, I comment on things and, you know, hear their story. And sometimes I like just post something about your story, about being South Asian and being like a biomedical engineer or like you know, like I think those stories need to be heard more yeah, most definitely yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I see a little bit. Maybe I'm not in that side of Instagram. Yeah, I'm trying to you know with my algorithm. But you know, I want to hear more stories about South Asian and women in different careers, right? And just what they're experiencing, what they have experienced. Just what they're experiencing what they have experienced because definitely I'm sure they have some challenges as well when it comes to advancing in their career or, you know, doing things as they need as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so another question I have. Like you said, a lot of women of color will encounter challenges in advancing in their career. So how can they increase their confidence when they are going through their career or their educational journey to have that belief in themselves? How can they?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I think a couple of things I've done for myself, for my increasing my confidence is I always practice gratitude and it's it's. It's something that's really easy and I've heard about it a lot but I never put it in practice. But I started putting it in practice more when I started, kind of like I was a year into my program and I would write down like three things about myself that that I like or love, and then I go throughout my day and then, before I go to bed, three things that I'm grateful for, and they're like really small things, like, oh, I'm grateful that I have my legs, I can walk, or I found parking in downtown, or like you know, just really basic stuff.

Speaker 2:

Because I always think about the grand scope of things, like, oh, my writing didn't go well, my data collection was horrible today, and then I think about well, let's think about the smaller things. Sometimes it's not back to the basics. Yeah, yeah, back to the small things, right, because I'm always thinking about how everything else is going wrong, but I don't think about what I already have.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that's that's kind of a another thing that helps me with my confidence and also you know, I've always struggled with that topic like growing up with with my confidence as well, but also like knowing that I'm doing this program for myself, this is for me, I'm not doing it for anybody else.

Speaker 2:

And I think that's another thing that sometimes you get questioned on, like are you just doing it to be a doctor?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm doing it because I genuinely have passion to help people and make a change in the healthcare system for immigrants and refugees. And lots of people, I think sometimes say, oh, that's a lot of work, and I said they will ask a lot of work, and I said it's a lot of work, but for me it's it's way worth it because it really helps me feel confident about what I'm, what I'm doing. I'm not always going to be sure about what I do, and that's where the learning curve comes. But I think when it, when it comes to really trying to build my self esteem and confidence, is looking back at the work I did and also how far South Asian women have really come in different fields, so that that makes me really happy and like really progress, like, okay, I'm going to finish my degree and you're going to have that paper and I'm going to be really happy because it's going to have my name on it, right? So yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you're saying your confidence comes from the fact that you are making this decision for yourself and it's in alignment with all your values and everything. So, for individuals who may struggle with making the right decision for themselves because of so many different influences, so many different factors, what would be your advice to them?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like I think that's a tough one. Like when there's so many influences on your decision, it can be really tough and I mean I think there's no right or wrong answer to that. But I think it's really going back to like I mentioned. I think you know, I think if you have a really good support system, regardless of what you do, people are going to be happy for you. And obviously there's going to be different opinions, like you're gonna have your parents, you're gonna have this and that, and there are going to be challenges where people might be in your ear and they're going to tell you no, no, no, no, no and don't do this and don't do that. And people have setbacks, right. Yeah, I always tell people and I think I say this in a general thing is, if you want to pursue something, write down why you want to pursue that, why do you want to, and read it over and really self reflect on it. Take your time, because you know a PhD isn't going anywhere, right, like you can take it.

Speaker 2:

I took two years to really think about, like, is this what I want to do? Am I really cut out for this? Is this and I did have so many questions? I did have a lot of. Are you sure you want to do this? It's a lot of work. You know you want a family one day, you want to kids one day. And I was like, well, I mean, I know I'm a woman, I don't just want to have kids all the time, like that's not just really based on that, but um, like getting married and having kids and you know that's important too and it's a value of mine. But what's a value is making myself happy too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's what I value more yeah, you got to make yourself happy as well, and if you are so influenced by other individuals, then you're not living in alignment with your own values and whatnot.

Speaker 2:

But, like you said, there's so many different competing values that may come in thing, or maybe it's just not the right point in life. And that's the good thing about pursuing a PhD you could be any age and pursue it. I've met people who are, you know, their kids are married and old, and they're older, they're pursuing a PhD because they couldn't do it before, they didn't have the funds and they had to take care of their kids, and they're taking care of their kids, working two jobs. Like you know it, there's so many circumstances that people go through right. So I definitely, um, my grandfather was a doctor as well.

Speaker 2:

Okay, he was a, he was like more of a medical doctor, but I've always, you know, wanted to kind of go in that direction, but I just never saw it kind of pan out this way. I didn't think I was going to go in this particular direction, but I knew kind of, oh yeah, I wanted to help people, I wanted to make a difference. I just sometimes I don't even know how I got up to here. I think it's just I took a step and then it just went this way. So I took it that way, yeah, and I know like in the beginning, a lot of people used to ask me like, why are you taking a bachelor's in psychology, Like what are you going to get out of that? And I was like, oh well, I'm not sure where I'm going with it, but I think I'll go somewhere.

Speaker 1:

Well, you were passionate about it. That's why you want to learn about it, and yeah, so that definitely makes sense. But I understand what you're saying, because you know if the subject matter doesn't interest you, then you're not going to like what you're studying and going towards, right, yeah, yeah. So it's so interesting to hear about your journey and so, in terms of the mark you want to leave in the field, could you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So one of the biggest things that I've realized, like working in settlement services, working with immigrants and refugees, is definitely the area of like mental health and accessing mental health, and I wanted to really make something where, when immigrants and refugees come in, especially with low literacy and English, is that we can assess them for their mental health needs and a basic way of like asking questions that can be translated in their languages. So, like right now, I'm in data collection, so I meet like different families, like Arabic speaking families, farsi speaking families, with a translator and, you know, asking them certain questions about, you know, not just their basic needs, but how are they feeling here now that they're here, how nervous are they? Or, you know, really seeing if they need any resource referral or need any help. And, of course, we see that people who refugees have more trauma. Immigrants do too, to some sense. But we also know that mental health eventually, because newcomers are five years and less in Canada, that's what would categorize as a newcomer but the thing is we also see people immigrant and refugees mental health deteriorate over the years.

Speaker 2:

It's not just when they come, it's more of as it goes on, because they miss home, they miss everything. Maybe they left because there's a war in their country. They left because, whatever the reason might be, and they had to literally pick up everything and come. And sometimes, even with immigrants, they come here for a better life but they have to work hard, they have to pay bills. That's also part of that mental health, too that I've been seeing. So even though, like, I want to do a chapter in intergenerational trauma because I find it so fascinating and that's something I'm really passionate about is just the longevity of people who are newcomers, refugees, coming to our country, and I know they're all working hard and they all come from different areas of the world and they're really trying to make themselves better people and also really get accustomed to things around here. And there's some really great services in Canada as well and there's a lot of help.

Speaker 2:

I curated some of the questions through ELL teachers, english language learner teachers because they have the expertise on that more than I do. And then I'm taking the healthcare lens of, hopefully, maybe, the healthcare system, taking my research and applying it. So, yeah, it's like a pre-assessment tool, essentially just to see where they land with mental health needs and what they need help with and then seeing down the road if their mental health has gone better or not. And if we're intervening earlier on, is that helping more than intervening later as well? So yeah, we'll see how it goes. It's a lot of work but I yeah, I'm just kind of, you know, in the data collection part, so it definitely like I had a hypothesis and I mean it's kind of coming true, kind of isn't. But you know, that's how research is yeah, most definitely.

Speaker 1:

Um. I'm also wondering what your thoughts are on in terms of stigma, um in uh like mental health in the south asian population yeah, like, um, I remember, um, you know, growing up and talking about mental health.

Speaker 2:

There's obviously in our language as well. Like, talk about mental health, it's, you can already hear it like how negative it can be sometimes. And also like being a counselor and counseling a lot of people in the South Asian community. Lots of people worry that I'm going to tell people in the community I can't because I'm bound by ethics, right? But yeah, um, that is definitely a big thing that I get consistently being a counselor that worry that, oh, you're gonna go tell somebody. They're gonna tell I was like I can't do that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the, that's the um pros of seeing a counselor right yeah, yeah, and I think, somewhere you can share your stuff and not have to worry that someone's going to tell someone else, right, yeah?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and you know, like struggling with mental health and or addiction. Um, in our community I feel like it's, I see, I see a lot of like I think a lot more people in our generation are talking about mental health and addiction. A lot more people are accessing help compared to before, yeah, than in the past. I mean, I think there's still a negative stigma around like accessing counseling, like, let's say, you're even accessing counseling because you went through something traumatic, right, and when you go through something traumatic, that's something you hold on for a long period of time. And lots of people as well people my age who are like second generation have realized how much it starts affecting their mental health and they start using unhealthy coping strategies like drinking or doing drugs, right, and sometimes when I ask a lot of people in the South Asian culture like you know what's the things that stress them out the most, it's usually around like you know family lifestyle, marriage, you know divorce, like so many different things, right, yeah, and then, because some people weren't taught healthy coping strategies, they've never been shown that it can be really difficult to manage it, so sometimes they might reach for alcohol, they might reach for other things.

Speaker 2:

I always say, like as a counselor, it's okay to be unhealthy. Sometimes you're going to be unhealthy. Sometimes it's gonna happen like you're gonna. You know, like I have this thing that when I'm stressed, I eat a lot of food, like I just, you know, emotional eating. That's what I used to do and I realized what my trigger is with that as well. And it's okay, like you're going to do a little bit of unhealthy things. Now you're doing so many unhealthy things that starts affecting your health and your relationships. Then it's something to about, you know, reevaluate as well. So, yeah, I think there's definitely definitely still a stigma. I definitely hear it being talked about more. Like I was listening to Red FM the other day. They're talking about counseling and mental health. I was like when did this happen?

Speaker 1:

It's great to have that happening now, because in the day it wasn't really like growing up like it was very different, Nobody would talk about, it was never on tv.

Speaker 2:

And if they showed it on tv, they made that person look like they were crazy, like yeah, this person's crazy, don't go close to them, they're going to infect you, or you know, like, whatever it might be. And I was like, oh, this is odd. And then, as I got older, I was. You know all of us deal with so many issues and you know lots of people also get diagnosed with mental illnesses as well and I think the misconceptions always because you have a mental illness, you can't live a regular life. It's not true.

Speaker 2:

I know so many people who are diagnosed with mental illness and they, they are, you know, living their life, they're working, they have kids, and they, they are, you know, living their life, they're working, they have kids and family, and you know. But they personally are so scared to talk about their mental illness because they're afraid people are going to see them differently or judge them, or, yeah, or judge them, and you know they won't tell their employer that, hey, I'm taking a sick day because I'm I have depression, like I'm dealing with my depression but I can't talk about it because you're going to say who cares like or whatever it might be Right. So, yeah, it's definitely there, but it's definitely. I feel like it's gotten better. There's a lot of South Asian agencies that do a lot of like workshops and they work with a lot of people.

Speaker 1:

I feel like it's it's definitely gone way better than when I was younger yeah, and that's a plus most definitely, because before it used to be, even counseling used to be viewed as like you did something wrong, now you're going to go to counseling or in such a like a negative, um, a negative kind of uh, it would sorry it would be viewed through a negative lens but, yeah, so yeah, it's interesting. What can we do to lessen the stigma as, like members of the public?

Speaker 2:

I think, like even the members of the public is always talk about mental health in an inclusive way, in a positive light. If you see people joking about mental health or even things like addiction, um, like that person looks crazy and don't go close, like you know all these types of things it's it's really saying people are struggling, so you feeding into that stigma by saying those statements. It's going to further that stigma. Right, I say that to students too, because you know, I've worked in a school as well and I hear a lot of students and in general talking about mental health like, oh, but they're like that and they're never going to change. And you know, and I was like, even joking about something like that, you're still feeding into the stigma. Yeah right, most definitely.

Speaker 1:

And that word. You use that crazy word like speaking about people like, oh she's crazy or he's crazy like that. That carries a heavy weight as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because I always tell people, like you know, especially South Asian people that are sitting in a table and they're gossiping and talking about somebody and how they're struggling with their mental health and addiction. But you don't know, in that same table someone else will be struggling with that and they're not going to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

because you already added to the stigma and they're like you know what, I can't talk to them about that. Or even if they try to test the waters and try to tell you something, the way you respond to that, they're going to be like this person. I'm not going to talk to them about that, or I'm just going to keep it to myself. And when you keep it to yourself, eventually what happens as you get older, with that trauma or everything you're dealing with, it starts haunting you, it starts coming back to you and there's so many cases, even with people that I've worked that are older, not even just the South Asian community, but you know, holding on to your trauma, when you get to your 60s and 70s, where it's like you're bursting, you're like literally a Coke can that opened and it's all coming out because you having access counseling.

Speaker 2:

I didn't think it was right. My community was like this, this, this right. So I get like the spectrum of like younger and older people, depending on you know the situation. So, yeah, it's, it's definitely a big topic in our community but, like I said, I feel there's so many organizations and things happening where we can openly talk about things like that.

Speaker 1:

And you discussed the importance of creating safe spaces for people to share, like what they've been through or what they're going through, and to create that non-judgmental space. There are counselors, but we as a public need to do our part to ensure that people feel like they can share their journeys and not keep it inside, because, like you said, it takes a great toll on individuals if they keep their traumas and their challenges within them.

Speaker 2:

for a long period of time.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, yeah, there's always like those topics like mental health or if someone is going through a divorce or someone you know, those big things of like, oh, like, why are they doing that, why did they do this or why did that happen? And it's like, besides asking why, someone's going to ask them if they're doing okay, do they need help? Because we never know what position we're going to be in the future when it comes to certain things, especially like if a close one passes away or we're going through something tough in our relationships or whatever it might be. You never know if you're ever going to be in that position. So it's important to be empathetic and I always say if you have nothing to say, it's okay. You don't have to say anything, right? Just having that space.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just having that space is important and I think that that speaks a big amount just your presence and being there, not judging somebody, but understanding that this person is struggling. I have not been in that position. Maybe I never will, but I will try to understand and be there for them. But I might not say anything because I don't know much. I can acknowledge that, hey, I've never been through this, but I'm here If you need me, I will just listen while you talk, right, and I think that makes a big difference. So, like I want people you know, especially in our community, besides coming from a judging lens, to be more empathetic that lens of being more empathetic and more welcoming when it comes to people's issues and hardships, right safe space that, um, you know, presence is so important and, like you said, to be non-judgmental when individuals are sharing what they're going through, because we never know.

Speaker 1:

Like everyone who's a human being goes through challenges. Life is tough, um so, yeah, yeah. So do you have anything else you want to add for today's podcast episode? We've gone through a whole lot, I know we went through a lot.

Speaker 2:

I feel like I just talked a lot because I'm a very extroverted person. Well, I think the only thing I want to add is I feel like if, if you want to pursue higher education, anyone can pursue it. I think any woman is capable of pursuing whatever they want to pursue, in whatever capacity it might be. I chose higher education because, honestly, it led me to it and I kind of like fell in that direction. I kind of took it day by day and I don't regret that decision whatsoever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, am I tired? Yeah, can it be stressful? 100%, but I feel that you know it's. Everything's a different challenge in life. You know, I feel like if you grow from those challenges and you just come out as like a better version of a flower right which is like corny to say, but you know, yeah, you're like a different flower right, like you're just different in a good way, like you've grown so much, you've changed so much, you gain so much knowledge, you've met so many people. And yeah, like you know, it'd be an end of a chapter when I'm done, but then there's another chapter starting of what else do I want to do?

Speaker 1:

yeah, right, and that that makes life exciting honestly. Yeah, that's what I look forward to.

Speaker 2:

Is is my future and know trying to help people as much as I can with the time I have, but also, you know understanding that I can't do everything.

Speaker 1:

I'm not superwoman which I'm sure, yeah, people will be inspired by listening to this episode and there's so much information that you provided, so thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and if you want to share your Instagram account, you can share it yeah, so my Instagram is at PhD with Shalika and that's my PhD Instagram account. If you want to message me or follow me, I'll follow you back. I just like to post about like wellness, slowly, some lifestyle stuff, phd tips, but the tips are kind of like pretty much universal for any student. I like to do that as well.

Speaker 1:

So yes, so it's been nice talking to you as well. So, yes, so it's been nice talking to you. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to me and sharing your wealth of knowledge and just inspiring, and so thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you so much, Manpreet. This was great. Yeah, no, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Bye.

Speaker 1:

Bye, bye.

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Manpreet Dhaliwal

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